Voices - Conversations on Business and Human Rights from Around the World

S07E06 Vani Saraswathi on Migrant Domestic Workers

Episode Summary

Many migrant workers are employed as domestic workers – as gardeners, cleaners, carers – relied upon increasingly by their household employers as government investment in education, elderly care, and other social services diminishes year on year. Their remittances are important for their home countries, and more importantly, for their families. They work with few rights, and companies, whose expatriate employees often recruit these workers, have felt constrained about whether and how they can intervene.

Episode Notes

In this conversation, Vani Saraswathi of Migrant-Rights.org tells IHRB's Salil Tripathi why companies should be actively engaged with the workers' conditions, even if they are not their direct employers, and why they should take the responsibility seriously. She calls for the pressing need for improved national labour protections for domestic workers in the Gulf and globally, because their risks have increased dramatically due to the COVID-19 pandemic, with many of them out-of-work and stranded. She offers practical steps that can be taken to safeguard their rights. 

 

About Vani Saraswathi:

Vani Saraswathi is the Associate Editor and Director of Projects, Migrant-Rights.org and the author of Stories of Origin: The Invisible Lives of Migrants in the Gulf.

Vani moved to Qatar in 1999, working with several local and regional publications, and launching some of Qatar’s leading periodicals during her 17-year stint there. 

Since 2014, in her role with Migrant-Rights.org she reports from the Gulf states and countries of Origin. She organises advocacy projects and human rights training targeting individual employers, embassies, recruitment agents and businesses in Qatar, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and UAE. 

She also contributes as an expert commentator on issues related to human rights in the GCC for various international publications and at international forums, including those hosted by UN agencies and is a member of the Policy Advisory Committee of the ILO Regional Office for Arab States.

Migrant-Rights.org is a one of its kind bi-lingual content-based advocacy platform that focusses on the GCC states and the corridors of migration, Asia & Africa. It was started 13 years ago by activist Esra’a El Shafei.

Episode Transcription

Welcome to voices a podcast from the

Institute for human rights and business

here we're seeking to elevate the range

of perspectives on the role of business

in the world and in people's everyday

lives hello everybody this is a little

tea party from the Institute for human

rights and business and I'm speaking

today with Vani Saraswathi who is a

director of special projects at the

migrant rights group which basically

works on domestic workers and migrant

workers who work abroad outside South

Asia first of all tell me does your

organization do oh we are GCC based

organization a bilingual advocacy total

so in English in Arabic so we research

and report on issues of migration labor

migration to the Gulf primarily from

Asia but also from East Africa and we do

advocacy on the ground with agents

businesses governments and embassies you

have worked for some time on this issue

of migrant workers and you didn't block

for us in the past and raise the issues

that are critical in this regard but

obviously a lot has changed in the last

few weeks and months after the coup bit

19 races about how migrant workers are

actually affected in the informal sector

in the Gulf region and you've been

depositing about that there is a de

facto segregation of expatriates and

migrant workers in any case and the

local population so given those

realities and given the reality in which

the domestic workers tend to be hospital

support staff drivers cleaner than

flow-on which are largely invisible in

this kind of a setup what what is the

current situation how are they affected

so if you look at domestic workers and

those who fall outside of the labor law

those are the agricultural workers

fishermen domestic workers in some cases

cleaning company workers as well

and many of the domestic workers except

in Saudi are female and the clearing

sector in the region is also highly

feminized in the best of times they are

still isolated and invisible and what

happened now is that situation has just

gotten worse so the kind of information

we are getting from these workers the

ones that we are able to speak to the

groups that work with them is ours have

gotten even longer where earlier they

used to work anywhere between 12 to 15

hours now it's even higher usually we

find over working during Ramadan and

it's a huge problem where origin country

embassies struggle with workers who

leave abusive employment conditions

during the month of Ramadan so now you

have that and the covered crisis and on

top of that countries themselves in the

Gulf trying to send back nationals now

not all of the domestic workers are

aware of their rights or what the

regulations are or how to protect

themselves because the messaging that's

being put out still has to go through

the employer now this is a big issue

because the employers tend to control

what information reaches the worker and

you know what is appropriate they decide

what is the appropriate information for

the worker in such a way that it doesn't

affect the work itself for them so of

course we're hearing a lot about

overworking a non-payment because

employers are not getting paid or there

is a delay and they pass on that

liability and burden to the domestic

workers even though they are paid very

little anywhere between 200 to 300

dollars even a 10% cut or something that

I can't afford and those who are being

paid are not able to remit money back

home because they are not included in

the financial system they are not

included in the wage protection systems

in the Gulf which applies to other

migrant workers so even if they receive

money remitting money back home is

becoming a problem so very broadly these

are the specific issues apart from the

fact that they don't have enough

protective gear they are exposed to more

bleach and chemical cleaning substances

they are the frontline staff within

homes if someone falls ill

taking care of them regardless of what

impact it has on their own health and

communication with their families as

well so we hear from families saying

they haven't heard from you know

daughters or wives in the Gulf because

either they've haven't been allowed to

call or they don't have money on their

phone so it's many layers of problems

which always exists but has gotten worse

because of the current situation so we

are talking about business and human

rights here and many of the workers that

you mentioned tend to work in the

private space I mean they are working

for individuals those individuals may be

local nationals or they may be

expatriates themselves hired by

companies so what role do you think

companies have in this situation and why

should it intervene in the private space

of the employee yeah sure I mean this is

something that businesses often raise

with us when we talked to them about

domestic workers why they need to speak

to the AI executives to the AH staff

I'll give you one example there are

various reasons they need to be but in

the Gulf especially say in a country

like Qatar if you want to employ a

domestic worker your sponsor your kafeel

has to give you a no objection

certificate that's the only way you can

in turn sponsor a worker if you're a

foreigner now that is the first line

right where the company also becomes in

a way liable because they've given

permission to their staff to hire a

domestic worker live in burqa secondly

you're giving special allowances that

allows those workers of your staff to

recruit workers your housing for

instance if it's a company housing that

you're providing and you know it's

you've hired an entire compound you're

an oil company event had hired an entire

compound there are quotas for domestic

workers so you kind of a feeding into

that system you're paying for it in a

way so you do have some responsibility

to educate your staff and to hold them

liable when there is very extreme

abusive practices now if you are the you

know main employer and you know

you know a manager in your company is

sexually or physically abusing someone

or forcing them to work against their

wishes those are by even even by the

laws of those lands on criminal charges

so you will be called in as well

your mon Dieu poor your Pierrot is going

to be stepping in to help your staff get

out of the situation and apart from all

these reasons also because it's a right

thing to do

yeah sometimes yeah sometimes the

problem is the laws the Gulf countries

are not very transparent they don't make

very clear what the laws are what the

liabilities are and that is what we try

to break down in our advocacy we work

with a law firm we try to break the dam

we try to make that information

available for individual households so

when they take the decision to hire

someone they know what exactly their

obligations are and they're just merely

asking businesses to pass on that

information and we have had some

successes there is an example which is

not our advocacy effort within Beirut

for instance the American University of

Beirut is very strict with their

guidelines for staff who live on their

campus who hire domestic workers so

there are very strict guidelines they

have to follow or action will be taken

now we have we don't have that kind of

success in the Gulf but there are

businesses that have incorporated this

part of it you know information on this

into the code of conduct into their

policies internal policies most of them

are international companies working in

the Gulf I must say they are not local

businesses but it's a work in progress

and we are hoping that this conversation

takes place at many levels including

businesses and I would imagine since we

mentioned the American University in

Beirut I mean New York University has

campus in Abu Dhabi I believe and yeah

the kind of thing that can become a

trendsetter that other academic

institution even if they are not profit

for-profit companies but they are

private entities can make such things

more widely known and intervene where

necessary absolutely so New York should

should mention NYU ad they do have

policies

or your staff who live on campus right

who hire domestic workers in the lots of

American universities across the dull

some of them are just strict about it

but most of them are trying to sensitize

they are employed because even floor the

Western experts coming in this is

probably the first time they have an

experience hiring a worker correct

or having something so you know it's

really important to clarify those things

today I know but the uniqueness of the

situation get spoken a lot about Gulf

you live in India so you know the Indian

situation there I lived in Southeast

Asia so I know it's somewhat similar in

Singapore and Malaysia and Hong Kong and

in America and Europe you do have

foreign domestic workers but they have a

lot more rights I mean you know they can

use the court system and so on so in

terms of post coverage scenario is if a

situation particularly acute in the Gulf

region and not serves well or is this

pretty much the phenomenon wherever we

look I think it's pretty much a

phenomenon wherever we look not just in

the Gulf but also in Taiwan and Malaysia

and in the asia-pacific region which

depends on domestic workers and we know

in past studies especially studies done

by the ILO that however bad the economy

gets in fact the worse the economy gets

the more the dependency on domestic

workers mmm because more adults from a

household have to go out and work so I

mean the dependency of domestic workers

is going to keep increasing that's not

going to go away because fewer and fewer

investments are made in public services

for elderly care child care all of these

are being outsourced to you know

individuals to take care of themselves

so they go and employ a part-time or a

live-in domestic worker yeah and I think

you made a very good point in one of

your blog's I think recently where you

talk about how it exposes them to

greater vulnerabilities it increases

their working hours as he was saying at

the beginning of the of our conversation

and it just makes it even harder

particularly during the time of Kuwait

absolutely yeah now I want you to ask

about you know you had a checklist of

what you expect of companies to do in so

what would you like what

what are the six or seven things of five

things you expect companies to do in

this kind of a situation I think one of

the things that companies should be

aware of when they are following workers

or when they are carrying out pay cuts

is to tell the world you know tell your

staff if they are employing someone to

try as best as possible not to pass on

that burden or liability because you see

I mean oh if there's an execute of

earning $10,000 which is a norm in the

Gulf you know it's it's a bare minimum

and you're paying $200 for work just

because you get a 20% pay cut doesn't

mean you need to pass that on yes I

think that's the key that if you need

them then pay them well you know this is

not your right to have a domestic worker

so if it's a privilege you need to be

able to pay for it

second make sure that whatever

protective equipment you are giving them

during Corbett masks gloves

you know disinfectants this should be at

the expense of the household because

this is part of the work yeah I guess

hearing a lot of complaints from workers

that they have to pay for it themselves

hmm and that is really really unfair

because they can't afford to pay twenty

four reels for a mask or hundred reals

for a glass or you know pair of gloves

these are things that households should

pay for another thing is if you're

working from home don't automatically

assume that the work domestic work is

gonna be on call 24/7 you might have a

late-night work call that doesn't

necessarily mean she has to stay up to

take care of your kids unless you're

paying her overtime with her consent

she's a she's willing to do those extra

hours she or he so being very very

conscious of work covers because when

you're at home you're just gonna be more

relaxed about your schedule yeah

and that kind of you know extends to the

domestic worker so her work is going on

24/7 you know where her work is working

from home regardless of commad you

shouldn't just make it worse and the

other thing is the off days now this is

a huge problem across the Gulf while the

dumbest

raucous low address it they don't really

have any mechanisms to monitor it so in

our research we found that most domestic

workers don't get an off day or weekly

often and when they do they're not

allowed to go up now there in any case

not going to be allowed to go out the

least you can ensure is that they do get

an off day and they are allowed to spend

it as they please if it's to watch TV or

do something or relax they cannot be on

call they cannot be oh just to call away

and then can ask them to do something

you know a one last job on a Friday

you've given them an off game ensure

that that you know that is maintained so

the off day is really important even

before kovin more so now work hours

wages protection that's for and

communication with your family so we in

in varies depending on the country if

you take a country like Southie the

majority of female domestic workers who

work inside households not the male

domestic workers who work outside they

do not have access to a telephone and

that's a case across the Gulf now this

means you're always dependent on the

employer to speak to their family and

friends and this has to go it is a right

and they should and bilateral agreements

are addressing this that employers

should give them at phone or allow them

to hold the phone so especially now I

think companies need to tell your staff

not interfere hinder with their

communication and finally I would say

facilitating online payments remittances

back home if they are unable to open a

bank account Qatar has now said you can

open a bank account without a minimum

balance and is encouraging employers to

include domestic workers and you know to

open their country to mystic workers not

all of the countries have this so in

which case maybe the employer can help

remit using their own accounts until a

time they'll be able to go out and use a

Western Union or a money exchange so

these are very broadly the things that

companies can start communicating to the

staff who employ domestic workers and

one final thing you're seeing an

increasing trend

of people going away from domestic

worker living arrangement they prefer

hiring freelance workers or workers to

cleaning companies to work hourly now

this entire sector has been shut down

across the Gulf which means a lot of

these workers are without a job they are

not getting salaries they do have

accommodation many of them but even food

is becoming a problem so if you have a

regular cleaning company you as a

business you use a cleaning company for

these services talk to the cleaning

company contractors see how you can help

them mitigate the allowability a little

bit well you could probably give them a

little bit of money in lieu of work

could be done later so that the workers

are not affected because a lot of big

businesses they do not hire directly for

facilities management that includes

cleaning catering security to you

subcontractors in the Gulf

now those businesses are really affected

and so the bigger companies could play a

role in making sure that you know again

that's not passed on to the workers

individual workers right I mean you

touched upon a lot of things I was going

to ask him a final question which was

what permanent changes you would like to

see so one of my questions is that is it

possible for there to be a model

contract so violet well one appreciates

that the individuals are being employed

by the employee and not by the company

but the company is interwoven because of

a visa process and so on that company

should give model contracts to their

employees that if you do hire domestic

cook or gardener or this is the this is

what you are expected to adhere to or

even maybe building some kind of an

incentive mechanism that you will be

given these benefits if you are here to

these standard but not otherwise I'm

just asking yeah yeah absolutely I mean

these are if if companies can say that

like you know we are giving you this

allowance we can idea to order to be

great but meanwhile even before the

domestic workers loss came in we had

worked on a standard contract based on

ILO standards and some of the company

shared that with this job and said try

and use this contract of course now

there's a live

there is a domestic workers law in most

of the countries and they have their own

contract but we also given guidance that

looks at how - one of the big issues

with domestic work is you don't know how

to calculate work hours you think the

child is playing and the nanny is just

sitting there so that's not work but

actually it is work even if she's not

like you know actively involved it's

work because she's just once moot for

the child so how do you calculate work

hours so these are some of the tools we

developed and with one particular Gulf

country we're trying to push that

through with the government where they

can kind of not you know add it as a

regulation where they tell employers

this is how you can make sure the

workers not overworked some businesses

have already started using this and that

could be the practice but I think the

big permanent change that we need to see

is the whole visa status currently the

only model the monopolies is live in

domestic work and that is inherently an

extremely exploitative model there's

really no way of making that fair and

you know at achill for the worker so you

need to give options where does

freelance work and for that the way

visas are issued has to change

you know Bahrain is experimenting with

flexi permit but it's very expensive so

it won't really suit the domestic

workers need so we need other countries

to start looking at an affordable way in

which domestic workers can live in a

country work in multiple homes but for

that you need to have other laws in

place you know other civil laws and

place criminal laws in place you need to

have a strong sexual harassment policy

at workplace minimum wages so it's it's

you know that's the long term thing but

immediately for businesses I think

educating this chance is is really

important and I don't want this to come

up something let us say the Western

employers are probably not aware of the

obligations right but the Gulf is such a

mix you have people coming from Asia

from other Arab countries and

people influenced by you know Asian and

Arab countries while citizens and the

worst of the practices if you visited

the galaxy with the driving style

everyone brings the worst of their

practices from home mm-hmm I entered in

the dull because no one is regulating

these things so you will see that carry

over you'll see Asian employers behave

in a certain way you'll see Arab

employers behave in a certain way you

see Western and all of which is a little

problematic because you're not being

held accountable right no it's it's it's

not an easy scenario at all but I think

the idea of these model contact that

you're talking about and the recognition

on part of some employers at least to

start doing something right and the kind

of example that the universities are

posting are probably are good building

blocks on which one can build forward so

all the best with your work thank you so

much in need yeah thank you Celine I

have me yeah

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